Behind the green: a conversation between co-founders

Behind the Green: a Podcast Conversation Between the Founders of LimeLoop, CTO Chantal Emmanuel and CEO Ashley Etling.

Chantal: if you weren’t an entrepreneur, what would you be doing?

Ashley: Probably something in food and wine. And, I always said, too, that if I didn’t get into entrepreneurship, I’d probably still be in school, because one way or another you are constantly learning, and I think that’s something with food and wine as well. While they seem so simple, there’s endless opportunities for both. 

Chantal: For sure, I was trying to think of what my answer to this would be, and similarly I think that there is something about building and making and food that each lends itself to that that’s very similar to the building of a company too.

Ashley: Yeah I think that in those really long days I joke: “Why don’t I just make cheese?” And someone tells me, “you can’t just make cheese, Ashley. It would have to be the world renowned cheese…” So I think it’s the love for making and making at scale. 

Chantal: …But is there anything like that where you set out with a hypothesis, or you thought you understood something, and through this journey has completely kind of turned that around for you?

Ashley: I think anyone who says “no” to that would be completely off in what they are saying, in any journey that they go down, especially building a new company. As you get deeper into the problem, new problems arise, and so that’s why I love it so much, oddly. And especially when you are working in supply-chain logistics, there is so much that goes into it. As you get into it, you realize some new things. I think one thing we quickly realized, which we were kind of thinking we would run into, is consumer behavior change, that making this shift to actually bringing your boxes out to the recycling bin versus leaving it on your front door would be a large shift, but actually we found really quickly that people were so delighted by this shift and feeling a relief of guilt. 

As we started working with warehouse management systems, [we found] a lot of software that a lot of 3PLs and DC centers use to actually fulfill orders were all designed for retail 150 years ago. Some were up to speed, some were not, some were in the middle. So being able to generate a third or a second label actually created more challenges than we ever thought would bring up into the system. So we continue to run into things like that, but the beautiful part of a problem solving team is that you constantly ask, can you solve that manually, [or] can you solve it with software, and I think that’s a continued fun of what we are working on.

Chantal: For sure, and you answered my next question which I feel like people ask me sometimes, “Why are you a logistics company? Aren’t you a packaging company?” And I think even when you brought the idea to me, I’m like “that sounds great, but why do you need a CTO for reusable packaging?” and I think you just hit the nail on the head that the packaging is really just one part of it, but I would love to hear you elaborate on the bigger system, on the bigger vision for that.

Ashley: Yeah, I mean I constantly talk to really, really inspiring, smart people within the industry and [when] you start to talk about that, we always look at this bigger vision where we all have this kind of coined word that has kind of become a buzz word which is ‘autonomous delivery,’ and these robots moving around almost back to The Jetsons. And, you know we’re not that far off, but we’re far enough off that 10 years of continuing to build up and do things the way we are will have that double bottom line impact on the environment and then also move into the profitability of a lot of these brands. So, we really looked at this ‘what’s the in-between’ until we get to that true autonomous delivery, and I think that’s where I continue to be excited that we are building up to this bigger vision where eventually we eliminate packaging, which is very exciting. 

Chantal: Cannot wait. Clearly there is still a pile. 

I think everyone assumes that we don’t order online and if anything it’s the opposite where we are feeling this pain and where we are looking for our own solution as well.

Ashley: Yeah, and I still get so excited when a LimeLoop shipper shows up at the front door [amid] a pile of cardboard boxes is just such, such a delight

Chantal: Oh, it stands out in the best way possible. What does it take to scale something like LimeLoop?

Ashley: The two big things I always say and have on my computer when I wake up in the morning is ‘simplify, simplify, simplify,’ which brings it back to focus of what we’re truly trying to solve, because it is a huge, huge problem and many layers that go underneath that, and then 100 nos equals one yes.

You’re going to continue to come across the people who actually don’t understand and don’t know where that’s going, but then the yeses are where the collaboration comes in and really starts to bring it to that scale. So by taking those core basics and building that solid foundation, that’s where we can start to see a scale. And then the other part is just the full collaboration of carriers and consumers and brands to really spearhead this, and that becomes this really incredible vision that we can’t wait for, when you go to UPS or FedEx, and you drop off the LimeLoop shipper, and you get to come in behind me and actually grab that shipper and use it for a package as well.

Chantal: I love that. Obviously, we have our big goals, but then the smaller goals I have in my own head are one of things like when a friend or family member calls me up and gets a package … and then a lot of the things we see posting online that has a lot of testing is that people are looking for this solution or are excited about the future of it. And those collaborations, as you mentioned, are another one where those folks are reaching out because they recognize that you start to see it all start melding together. 

But, The elephant in the room of this year that is Covid-19, you know obviously when we think about ecommerce, we think about packets, we can’t’ really think about that without thinking about Covid-19, so [I’m] curious about how you see that relationship and what has to happen next in response to it.

Ashley: I think what Covid-19 revealed in the supply-chain is that we’re not clear where all of our supply sits. And when we have something so critical as Covid and needing immediate help from PPP all the way to basic needs like toilet paper and food and water, when you’re unaware where that inventory is and where to move it, that’s where we really start to show that [smart reusable packaging] is a true critical need as we move forward, especially with ecommerce. So what we found very quickly, the road map we had developed was accelerated 3-5 years which is what we are seeing with most software companies that we’re now living in 2023 yet we have 2019 technology that’s built for that.

So it’s this rapid increase to develop and to push forward, so on one end it’s been incredible to be a part of it and to be that solution. On the other end, it’s just really pulling together as much as possible to work collaboratively to be able to move into 2023, and sometimes I think people feel it overnight.

Chantal: Exactly. That’s been one of the positives through this all, too – these big brands had to figure out how to work almost like a startup and change on the drop of a dime when the suppliers are calling from China that they can’t deliver, what does that mean for your next one. And so for us who have been living in that world from the very beginning, it’s very serendipitous that we are able to come in and provide that solution for other sustainability for these brands, which is amazing. 

For more and to listen to the full episode, find the LimeLoop podcast Behind the Green wherever you get your podcasts.

How to turn every single-use package into a reusable solution.

Welcome to The Package Loop, the world’s first open marketplace for the free exchange of boxes and mailers, transforming single-use packages into multi-use solutions. Created and powered by the reuse experts at LimeLoop, it couldn’t be more simple: You get a package. You open it and remove your goods. But now, instead of breaking it down for recycling or chucking in the trash (no judgment), you scan a little QR code and easily post it on the Package Loop community app. Next thing you know, you get a notice that someone will take it. Sweet. Or you discover you can take it to a participating retail location that doubles as a collection spot. Or you work out a way to swap it with someone who has a different box you want. Use the Package Loop every time you get a box or mailer, or save up a bunch and post ‘em when you have 10 or 20. 

It may sound immodest for us to say, but The Package Loop is an idea whose time has truly come. A recent study revealed that somewhere around 93% of all single-use boxes and mailers were structurally sound enough to be used at least four times. All we have to do is strip off the old labels, re-tape ‘em, and set ‘em back out there to do their jobs again. And again. The Package Loop fosters this obvious action. And makes it feel damn good.

If you’re a company, you’ll be a member of Package Loop because it gives you a super simple way to be part of the solution toward fixing the single-use conundrum. Imagine giving every box or mailer you send into the world a chance to be used again. Imagine each package you ship working to inspire loyalty, save you money and build a bridge toward your company’s fully circular packaging future. Now stop imagining it, and be part of it. Because we’re ready for you.

If you’re a consumer, you’ll use the Package Loop because you’ve had enough of the guilt that comes with knowing that, even when we do recycle our boxes and mailers, most actually aren’t. And even if they are, it takes crazy amounts of energy and resources to turn them into toilet paper or whatever. Plus you’ll get points and earn credits with member companies every time you use it. 

The way we see it, the LimeLoop Package Loop program is a win win win. Shippers win with free boxes and mailers. Companies win by being part of the future, building loyalty, earning real “eco-cred” and saving against their shipping bottom line. Consumers win by feeling empowered, exchanging what used to be a source of guilt into a source of sustainability. All in all, The Package Loop abides. Let’s give it a try, shall we?

The need for a circular solution

With the rise of consumerism, and the continued expectation of convenience and fast delivery, online shopping undoubtedly embedded itself in our culture. In a letter to shareholders, Amazon CEO, Jeff Bezos revealed they have more than 100 million Prime subscribers. The digital economy has officially arrived. Inevitably, every new age brings with it a new set of challenges.

E-commerce’s rise simultaneously resulted in a momentous rise in packaging waste. At LimeLoop, instead of focusing on the existing packaging solutions – traditionally cardboard boxes and plastic poly mailers – we chose to re-imagine an entirely new shipping landscape and introduce a circular solution: smart reusable packaging.

Why, you ask, do we need to consider alternative shipping materials? After all, cardboard boxes and paper mailers are recyclable. As it turns out, recycling is a complex matter. What consumers understand as recyclable has led to a significant amount of non-recyclables making their way into single-stream containers. From plastic bags, organic matter to metal… you name it. Today, the average contamination rate sits at approximately 25%, which translates into 1 in every 4 non-recyclable item being placed in a recycling container.

For example, when foods or liquids contaminate good cardboard and paper, their value is lost and, are then, un-recyclable. Papers can only be recycled 5 to 7 times before the cellulose fibers become too short, as stated by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).  And with rising recycling costs  and as much as we like to think our packaging materials are being recycled, that is not entirely accurate.

The Circular Solution

Rather than emulating the current packaging and shipping ecosystem, we decided to shift our thinking towards envisioning a different kind of shipping landscape. We asked ourselves, what if we shipped items using something that is not a cardboard box? What would that look like? How would it move an item from point A to B? Beyond product, what else could this shipper hold? How would it interact with the user and the environment? And the list goes on.

In this stage of the brainstorming process, we don’t edit ourselves. No question is stupid, and no answer is correct (or wrong). The goal is to think outside of the (cardboard) box, literally, and examine the root of the problem. Essentially, we were looking to solve for packaging waste in a sustainable way, as opposed to designing a single product to replace the cardboard box. This means examining form, function, and material use for the entirety of the product lifecycle. The result: a full-circle shipping solution in the form of a reusable, trackable shipper that lasts up to 10 years.

How it Works

The LimeLoop shipper is made from recycled billboard vinyl and is designed to be reused over and over, in place of a cardboard box or mailer. Designed to be modular, the shipper can snap and contract as needed. When expanded, the shipper is large enough to hold up to 11 adult shirts comfortably. Waterproof, abrasion-proof, and trackable, the shipper is built to last up to 10 years. This extended lifecycle reduces carbon emissions, energy, and the consumption of valuable resources such as trees, water, and oil.

When you receive your order from participating brands, all you need to do is take your product out, flip the mailing label over, and put the shipper back in the mailbox instead of in the trash. The shipper is then mailed back to the brand so it can be used again for the next customer. As we like to say, it’s as easy as zip, flip + ship.